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"I noticed that you include Henri Nouwen in your bibliography. Are you aware
that his views are heretical? In his book "Sabbatical Journey" he states,
"Today I personally believe that while Jesus came to open the door to God's
house, all human beings can walk through that door, whether they know about
Jesus or not. Today I see it as my call to help every person claim his or
her own way to God."
...whether they know Jesus or not? He seems to be directly at odds with John
14:6 is he not?
"If there is to be another reformation we should be wary of who we are being
led by."
* * * * *
Len responded..
brother Alan, I hope you won't mind that I took your comment, which was semi-public, and I am responding publicly. The issue you raise is simply too important to ignore, and others may feel the same way. Consequently, I "don't want my good to be spoken of as evil." And I think by dialogue we can all learn from one another.
A couple of years ago a sister wrote to me asking why I was publishing a prophetic dream by Steve Philips. She correctly noted that Steve had since fallen into sin.
I agreed that Steve's leaving his wife for a young woman was terrible, and that I could only hope he was receiving help from his community. But I disagreed that his behavior disqualified his previous ministry. And I also disagreed that his behavior meant that I shouldn't use his material. It was a true and accurate word from the Lord and it remains relevant today.
At the time I reflected on the life of David. It may sometimes puzzle me that David is held up as an example of passion for God, when his other passions were sometimes out of control.. but his story, both the high points and the low points, have been enshrined as Scripture. Hmm..maybe you and I are more particular about these things than the Lord is?
Maybe there is no straight correlation to the issue you raise in your note today, Alan, but there are at least some points of connection. I'm curious as to whether you have read any of Nouwen's work. I could only wish that everyone could write with the grace, courage, passion and insight that he possessed (for a small sample see reflections). I believe his ministry to the church was profound, and certainly I know his impact on my own life has been profound.
You rightly point out that Nouwen was a universalist, and that that position is heretical. You might be surprised to know that I also know a Vineyard pastor who holds that position.
You might be more surprised to know that I personally hold a couple of heretical positions. True.. I don't know what they are yet.. but one of these days I am going to discover that something I thought was true and obvious was just plain wrong. I can only pray that you never have the same experience.
So you can probably tell where I am going with all this, but I think a bit more needs to be said first.
What I have discovered, and what I believe will make a very great difference to the emerging church as we move forward, is that God speaks in the most amazing and unpredictable ways. He can speak through rocks and trees, even through a donkey. He most certainly speaks through every Christian tradition that exists, even though many hold positions that to you and I are heretical. He speaks in and through our lives in more ways than we can conveniently list. See, I believe that Jesus is really Lord of all, and that His Spirit is active all around us if we have ears to hear and eyes to see. I want to hear everything the Lord speaks.
If we were to break down Nouwen's position a bit more, we might find more points of contact than points of divergence. For example, what I like about his position is that he recognizes process. I believe that we are not human beings on a spiritual journey, we are spiritual beings on a human journey. We are all spiritual beings. Think about that a moment. Many around us are walking the path toward God, and most of the time it is not a "Christian" path, so it is veiled in darkness. But you and I, if we are caring listeners with open hearts, may have opportunity to contribute to those journeys no matter what label they fall under.
What is most profoundly true of us is that we are all spiritually hungry. I am almost stunned by how evident this is in current culture. No matter where I am, if I am careful and respectful, I can have a conversation about God and spirit and growth. If I listen carefully and really care, I can have daily opportunities to contribute to the next step for someone on the path to life.
I am amazed at how much there is to learn.. and sometimes surprised that the Hasidic Jews can teach me something. But lately I've also been surprised by Buddhists. I'm beyond being surprised by Catholic mystics, they form a good part of my heritage and I have found more water from Catholic spirituality than I ever found in evangelicalism. God is at work in all these places; there are rays of light shining through.
Let me close with a couple of questions. How do you handle the tension between free will and election? Is your position air tight? What do you make of Jesus warning in Matthew 25 that "doing it not" to the least of these meant doing it not to Him? What do you make of the verse in John 1:9 that states that "the true light, coming into the world, enlightens every man?" I'd also be curious as to what you think about the Gospel of sin management.
Well Alan, I realize you may really think me a heretic by now. If that's the case, all I can do is challenge you to rethink the issue and to ask yourself whether your position is based in love, or in fear?
Len
"Thank you for responding but I didn’t anticipate such a large demonstration of defensiveness over a simple inquiry. I also don’t remember inferring that you were a heretic. I don’t.
"I’m not sure where to begin. First I will let you know that I escaped the New Age ten years ago and accepted Christ as my personal savior. I spent many years involved in TM and other eastern meditative practices.
"Out of curiosity I wanted to know what the emerging church is all about and I can say that many aspects I feel are quite interesting and may bring some young people to church that may never go otherwise. The arrangement of the services to attract the youth I feel is very creative.
"After working for two years with a youth ministry helping kids get off the street and bringing them to Christ, I understand your reasons for trying create a different way to approach them. Although many had their prejudices about Christians they never criticized the way our church seating was set up or the style of the service. They heard the message and believed.
"You stated, “I am amazed at how much there is to learn.. and sometimes surprised that the Hasidic Jews can teach me something. But lately I've also been surprised by Buddhists. I'm beyond being surprised by Catholic mystics…”
"Yes I could certainly learn something from all of these people. I’m sure a Buddhist could teach me how make a great vegetarian meal, but I do not believe he can teach me anything about God because he doesn’t know who God is.
"I recently had a conversation with a Priest who believed that Buddhists will go to heaven. Curiously he also cited Matthew 25. I am no scholar of the Bible but I found that reference to be quite imaginative as a defense. I understood what he meant, that if you stretch the meaning greatly of those verses 31-45 that good works will get you into heaven. You can believe that if you wish but not as a Christian. If that was true then Christ’s death on the cross was unnecessary. You cannot hold both positions, in that there is only one way to God through Christ only and at the same time believe that good works will get you in without knowing Jesus. A decision must be made.
"However, my concern is not what the level of the lighting is during the service. It is what kind of message is being taught?
"The common thread in the emerging church is the pursuit of experience. When I was performing psychic readings many Christians told me I was going to Hell and that what I was doing was evil. My response was always the same, I had an experience, it was good, it was real, therefore it must be God. I couldn’t have been more wrong. Just because one has an experience does not mean it is of God. “For Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness.” 2 Corinthians 14, 15.
"What experiences will be taught? It is not hard to see that your influences are Christian mystics from time of the desert fathers.
"Henri Nouwen, Thomas Merton and others like them promote an eastern style of prayer disguised as a Christian practice called Contemplative Prayer. The practice which claims to bring one closer to God. The practice that claims that you can communicate with God during the “silence”. After reading many books regarding this subject I find it curious that so few question its lack of scriptural support.
"In fact there is no scriptural support. My proof is that all of the supporters of Contemplative Prayer take the Bible out of context to prove that CP is described in scripture. Why take scripture out of context if it is plainly described? Why? Because it’s not in there. They are admitting that there is no scriptural support by distorting scripture. The word “silence” is used 59 times in the NIV. None of them refer to silencing one’s mind.
"I have read the experiences of those who promote CP and they share the insights revealed from the voice of God in their minds. How do they know it is God that they are hearing? Ooops I know, they had an experience, it was good, it was real, therefore it must be God.
"My question to you is can you do all the other things you are doing with this emerging church concept without contemplative prayer? Without Thomas Merton, Brennan Manning, Henri Nouwen, Richard Foster, and Tilden Edwards influence?
"My “fear”? False teachings that will give a new person a false experience. The emerging church concept would be better much served by leaving out the practice of CP. Can you do it?
Blessings, Alan
Len wrote,
Alan, thanks for your open response and for the continued conversation. I don't expect we will agree on all points, but I do think we can grow in our understanding.
I didn't think you were accusing me of heresy. I did accuse myself of it ;) though I confess I don't know what positions I hold are heretical.. yet. I will likely find out one day.
It might help to broaden our discussion with some Scripture. Somewhere in the gospels Jesus remarks to his disciples who are complaining about someone that, "those who are not against me are for me." Now, we could argue that the average Buddhist is against Jesus. But in the few conversations I've had with Buddhists over the years, they are actually very open to Jesus, but not open to Christianity. They have seen the abuses of the Church, and they have met Christians who were quick to condemn them as unspiritual... while they observe those same Christians living very materialistic lives, and lacking compassion. Sadly, they rightly diagnose a spiritual disease which has deep roots in the West.
Anyway, my point is that if we were less condemning of other religions we might find more points of contact and have the kind of conversations that do lead toward Jesus and the Kingdom of God.
There are a few other stories in Scripture that strike me as helpful, and probably others can think of more. But I think also of Cyrus of Persia and other non-believers who became a tool for God in punishing His people. It sometimes seems that we believe that the Lord must work through the church alone.. in fact, He is powerfully at work in the culture around us, and sometimes the culture is ahead of the Church. If we are open to learning from all traditions, and even other religions, we may be surprised at what we can discover.
You say that the emerging church "may bring some people to church that may never go otherwise." Personally, that is not my goal. I am not interested in bringing anyone to church. I am interested in introducing them to Jesus. I am interested in seeing His Kingdom come. See, in some ways I believe we have made a theological faux pas.. we have confused the church with the Kingdom of God. They are not synonymous. Jesus came preaching the Kingdom, he says very little about the church. I often feel that the church thinks she is the date.. she is not.. she is supposed to be the dating service.
You say that, "I’m sure a Buddhist could teach me how make a great vegetarian meal, but I do not believe he can teach me anything about God because he doesn’t know who God is. "
From an information perspective, you may be right. The average Buddhist doesn't have any information about Jesus or Yahweh. He may not even be able to quote from the Old Testament. The Dalai Lama is an exception to this. He has read the New Testament and liked it very much. He even admires Jesus.. but the stumbling block for him is Christians. He sees the average Christian as self-centered, self-righteous and materialistic. And.. he is right.
About ten years ago I had a Buddhist friend. He was really into Zen and less into Buddhism per se, so he was more a philosophical Buddhist than a religious one. As I got to know him, he taught me three things..
Curiously, through my relationship with Ken I grew as a person and as a spiritual being. Now, you could argue that he didn't really teach me anything about God, and strictly speaking I guess you would be right. But if I grew spiritually through my relationship with him, it is tough to argue that there was no god-dimension in our friendship. I see this as what Augustine talked about as "common grace," or the reality that even Ken was on a long pathway toward truth, and was living by the light he had. In some areas he was more spiritually developed than me, and so he could lead me.
Alan, rather than argue with you about contemplative prayer, can I bring up a parallel issue? I'm curious what you make of the doctrine of the Trinity? Do you feel it is an important doctrine? Why? Is it clearly taught in Scripture? What about the sermon? Do you think it is a scriptural practice?
A few other questions come to mind... Is there a place for silence in our gatherings? Why or why not? I'm also really curious, do you think there is a place for experience in the life of faith? What do you make of Scripture verses that speak of immediate inner knowing by the Spirit of God (1 Cor.2) ?
"For God alone my soul waits in silence,
Alan, you can respond in the notes or you mail me at next1 at nextreformation dot com
Blessings, Len
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• © 1999-2004 Len Hjalmarson.•
Last Updated on May 28, 2004
